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On my departure from TheRPGSite

4/17/2017

33 Comments

 
In 2001 I was tentatively exploring the world of online forums, after a few years in the chatrooms of AOL and USENET groups that had started to die down. It was then that I discovered RPG.net, and for the next few years this would become my home away from home on the internet. The population there was large, diverse, and composed of just the sort of geeks I loved. I was a regular in both the main RPG forums and the off-topic Tangency, a quirky and amazing set of running in-jokes, ridiculous flame-wars, and explorations of geek culture. This was what is now known as the "wild west days" of rpgnet. There were moderators, but basically beyond the rules of no personal or group attacks, its was very hands-off. This led to some epic online battles, and I was on the ground floor of the epic and infamous Bigfoot flamewar of '03, I was a veteran of the GMS Clone Wars, and I am well versed in the lore of Killfuck Soulshitter and Snake Ghandi, while my "hat of D02" continues to know no limit. These were my friends, my online family, for the better part of a decade.

Many others have written about the fall of RPGnet, a google search will bring up the horror stories. Long story short, it became infected with a very pervasive and totalitarion form of Leftwing political extremism that in later years would be dubbed "Social Justice Warriors." Moderation went from an open and honest attempt to keep order and prevent escalation of fights to a totalitarian and nonsensical attempt to ban everyone from the site that didn't go along with a very specific, extreme, and Tumblr-esque political narrative. The rules of "No personal or group attacks"were replaced with the concept of "acceptable targets." Instead of a celebration of geek culture, it became a morass of self-loathing and hatred of geeks.  A mass exodus followed, many forced off and banned, as many more simply leaving for greener pastures online. The community fragmented, and many were lost. That bright, magical online geek mecca was gone, only a dream remaining of that wonderful time.

I eventually found my way to TheRPGsite as my online alternative. Run by the infamous RPGPundit, someone who managed to be banned from RPGnet well before the takeover just because of his extreme style of arguing and inability to make a point without adding a personal insult, The RPGSite was proposed as a bastion of free speech online. More than that, there was a very strict no tolerance policy for any political talk in the RPG forum. You were there to talk about gaming, or you could fuck off.

The RPGSite became a port of call for the disenfranchised former RPGnetters. We would greet newbies with the phrase "welcome to the Adult Swim," and it was a sink or swim sort of place. The Mos Eisley of rpg forums. If early RPGnet was the Wild West, The RPGsite was 1970s inner-city New York. You developed a thick skin, you learned to laugh at yourself and others, or you didn't survive. 

Which is not to say all of us agreed with the extreme views of our founder. The RPGPundit had an odd personal crusade against what he dubbed "The Swine" (he idolized Hunter S Thompson in those days), what he saw as a group of pretentious elitists centerered around the Forge indy rpg forums that he was convinced were out to "destroy gaming." These views brought Pundit more than his fair share of ridicule from the regulars. But there was a begrudging respect that he held to his ideals of free speech, even when the vitriol was directed at him. He could take a punch without compromising his ideals. You could disagree with him just like any other poster, without worrying about being banned (as the infamous RPGnet phrase) "for not being a good fit for the community"). 

This was my new home. Not the same as my old home, but we made the best of our exile. 

Then things started to change. TheRPGPundit became a political pundit. He embraced the Rightwing extremism of Breitbart and the Trump campaign. The Swine were replaced with "Leftist commies." Its hard to pinpoint exactly when things went wrong. It might have been the departure of the moderator Benoist after Pundit unprovoked and without reason called him out for attack on his blog. It may have been when The Pundit first violated his own ideals and banned a poster for disagreeing with him. But I think it was a slow decline. Pundit's political extremism became a beacon, and sooner or later the site began attracting racists. Another moderator tried to hold back the tide, and banned posters spouting white nationalist rhetoric, but then after getting chewed out by The Pundit for it, stepped down as moderator. 

As time went on, I became increasingly uneasy being there. Yesterday, I finally reached the end of the line.

In response to the Berkely riots, Pundit posted a thread entitled "Every one of These Bitches Deserved it," in which he linked to one of the most odious and misogynistic blog posts this side of a Red Pill site. I don't want to encourage him with any extra vistor counts, so I'll just post some of the 'highlights':

"Why don't you fucking cunt leftists tell the whole story?"
"because you leftists are fucking pussies"
"we kicked the fucking shit out of you goddamn commie fucks"
"What option do you really have...but to punch the stupid bitch in the goddamn face?"
"Certainly, almost no woman ever deserves to be hit by a man. But this bitch sure did. 
Almost no woman deserves to be called a 'stupid bitch' either, but this one certainly was,"
"I have no idea if the guy who hit her was a 'white supremacist' or not, but I know that in that moment he, and everyone who fought FOR free speech instead of for leftist totalitarian censorship and terrorism at Berkeley, is A MOTHERFUCKING HERO. "​

Those were in response to this captured image (and related video) of a female protester getting punched squarely in the face:
Picture
It was the final straw for me. I don't want to be associated, even indirectly, with the sort of person who can write this sort of misogynistic warmongering. And so I've left TheRPGSite. Once again, politics have driven me from an online home. 

I'll miss it, just as I miss RPGnet, or what RPGnet once was, and I don't know if I'll be looking for a new RPG forum to hang my geek hat or relegating myself to the abyss of social media. At the very least perhaps it will be less time wasted from pursuing my other projects. 
33 Comments
OHT
4/19/2017 03:42:29 am

Hey mate, very sorry to see you go. I'd like to keep in touch, as i might call on your artistic talents as some future points if you're up for it.

Dan.

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Tristram
4/19/2017 04:41:38 am

Hey Dan, I'd be up for that any time.

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Arkansan
4/19/2017 11:45:19 am

Shame to see you go, but I understand. I always enjoyed your posts.

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Tristram
4/20/2017 01:04:43 am

Its a small online world, I'm sure we'll encounter each other again. I will miss the place and many of the posters.

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noman
4/19/2017 01:42:06 pm

All the best, Tristram.

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ningauble
4/19/2017 01:42:44 pm

I followed you soon after. Hadn't been there for too long but it was pretty obvious after a while that it wasn't a discussion forum but just "eat a bowl of Breitbart" along with some valiant but masochistic leftists trying in vain to swim against the tide.

Which is fine, but the recent blog was a truly extremist call for physical violence against The Left, as always defined so broadly as to include regular posters in his own forum.

The idea that someone could just neutrally post in the RPG section and ignore the CAPS LOCK hate-orgies and calls for violent retribution seething in the forum's underbelly is laughable.

Free speech is all well and good but common courtesy and basic mental health are also worthy values to pursue in life.

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noman
4/19/2017 02:00:25 pm

I followed your and Tristram's example. For slightly different reasons.

All the best to you both.

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ningauble
4/19/2017 02:19:54 pm

I read your post, noman, and I thought it was very thoughtful and eloquent. Unfortunately I think you were casting your pearls before swine.

ningauble
4/19/2017 02:09:46 pm

I should say that there were some good discussions happening there in spite of the host, but the extremism sunk it in the end, at least for me. Sign of the times.

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Tristram
4/20/2017 01:12:54 am

Yeah, I still hold to the ideal of free speech, but that doesn't mean I want to associate with everyone no matter what they say. It reminds me of that episode of Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where they try to embrace absolute freedom in their bar, and eventually end up with a weird clan of inbreds doing odd sex acts and a Vietnamese gambling ring in the basement playing Russian Roulette.

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Shipyard Locked
4/19/2017 02:24:45 pm

I'm on the edge of departure myself, and I'm not afraid to admit it's because your exit gave me serious pause, but I really enjoy forums with a free speech policy and I wouldn't know where to go next. This is very vexing.

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Tristram
4/20/2017 01:16:51 am

Well, I'd been considering it for a while, this was just the final straw for me. There's still many posters there I like, some have given up and are just trolling while they watch the ship sink (Vulmea & Rincewind, for example), others try to make the best of things. And who knows? Maybe it will turn around eventually and this political extremism will die off. For myself, I just don't want to be posting at a forum run by a guy saying the kind of things Pundit says. As much as I disagree with guilt by association as a concept, in the modern age its still something I'm wary of.

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Daniel Fox link
4/19/2017 09:32:13 pm

I completely agree, and support your stance on this. His post was far beyond the pale. I was absolutely flabbergasted, particularly because I just finished re-reading Dark Albion that same night for a semi-secret fan project.

Following this, there was simply no way I could be professionally or personally associated with John Tarnowski (theRPGPundit) ever again. While I have hand-waved away his political opinions over the years, the overt misogyny and support of the attacker (the founder of Identity Europa, a white nationalist group) was the final straw.

Today, I purposefully deleted a Google Drive prospectus and scope of work I had been working on to adapt ZWEIHÄNDER into Dark Albion. That one stung.

Regardless, I hope to you see you more often on The Oldhammer Community Facebook group. I for one thoroughly enjoyed your recent submission for Chaos Warriors' Collectors Guide.


Best,
Daniel

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Tristram
4/20/2017 01:22:05 am

The Oldhammer community is my absolute favourite online right now. A very generous, friendly group engaged for the mutual love and respect of creativity and general geekiness. I'm hoping to spend some more time in the coming months contributing, and getting some painting done myself.

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Alathon
4/19/2017 11:05:03 pm

What you fail to understand is that Pundit's hostile, angry, and even mean-spirited commentary on antifa is just that: commentary on ANTIFA. She is not a "stupid bitch" or a "cunt" because she is a woman, but because she chose to participate in political violence. She chose to show up to a right-wing rally with a group of violent left-wing thugs who assaulted dozens (hundreds?), who threw improvised explosives at their targets, and who masked themselves to avoid being identified and held accountable for their violent acts.

Emily Rose Nauert bragged beforehand that she would "bring back 100 nazi scalps". She showed up with a group that has committed many acts of political violence in the past, did so again that day, and was herself masked. When Nathan Damigo punched her in the face, her hands were not between his fist and her face, or on his arm, as one would expect if she were attempting to defend herself -- her hand was on his neck! She showed up for a vile, violent, anti-democratic cause, attempted violence, and when she was bested in a very brief fight went wailing to the media and begging on Patreon.

Pundit was far from polite in his castigation of this creature, but attempting to characterize his words as "misogynistic warmongering", in light of the explicit and pre-meditated warmongering and violence of the target of his ire, is dishonest in the extreme.

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Tristram
4/20/2017 01:28:15 am

This issue for me is not the guilt of either side in that conflict. I don't support the Right or Left, I don't care what level of culpability one applies to the woman. It was Pundit's reaction specifically, which was an unabashed glorification and excuse of violence, couched in sexist terminology. I don't ascribe to two wrongs making a right, the ends justify the means, or any such concept. I'm not defending the woman in question, I'm saying that I won't have any part in the hateful vindication of violent extremism Pundit was promoting. This goes beyond etiquette; as far as I'm concerned Pundit's attitude is the problem, and that attitude is one of extremists on both sides.

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ningauble
4/20/2017 06:49:55 pm

The way I described the event at Berkeley was gang violence. These people who call themselves Antifa are some kind of radical left-wing gang who shut down an event by the Berkeley Republicans. So a bunch of Trumpistas decided to form their own gang, and stage a pro-Trump rally in Berkeley knowing full well it would bring the opposing gang out. That was the point of their rally. TheRPGPundit supported the rally and the violence and seemed to be reveling in it. He supported gang violence in Berkeley, California and wants it to continue.

Naturally he framed it as a battle for free speech but that is nonsense. Breitbart did far more to silence Milo than Antifa ever did but that his gang's favorite web site, so it gets a pass. It's good old fashioned hypocrisy. The RPGPundit is either completely brainwashed or is deliberately hiding his support for gang violence behind propaganda. Either way you can't pretend that it's a normal or acceptable way to start a discussion.

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JamesV
4/20/2017 04:45:00 pm

As someone who has made a profession of mostly lurking at roughly the same places and times you did, I also hope to know where you land next if you land anywhere.

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Shipyard Locked
4/21/2017 08:51:54 am

Does anyone here have any opinions about the Circvs Maximvs board at ENworld? It's supposed to be a free speech venue attached to the main gaming forum for convenience, but I've only skimmed it and I could use a deeper preview.

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Tristram
4/24/2017 09:29:13 am

I heard some good things about circus maximus a few years back, and I lurked there for a bit after creating an account, but didn't find any conversations I could really sink my teeth into. I may give them another try, but for now I think I'm going to be focusing on the Oldhammer and Underempire forums.

James Gillen link
4/22/2017 12:13:21 am

I haven't really burned my bridges for the same reason I never technically left RPG.net - going "ban me motherfucker" wouldn't really do anything - but I'm not going to be an active participant anymore. The guy is big on free speech and libertarianism but like a lot of Trump cultists fails to understand that if Trump gets the endorsement of both David Duke (arch anti-Semite) and Sheldon Adelson (arch Zionist) he must be lying to one of them, so he's probably lying to you too. At the same time I think the "FA" in "antifa" stands for "First Amendment." But that means you need to uphold your standards, not sink to the lowest common denominator. Sad. It's like Pundit got the same brain-eater that claimed Dennis Miller.

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Michael Moorecock link
4/22/2017 05:32:00 pm

Sounds like this will forever follow John Tarnowski's filthy persona: http://johntarnowski.rpgpundit.com/

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Tristram
4/24/2017 09:33:58 am

I'm not sure I understand, is that an alternate link to his blog? I do think Pundit himself stands by his own words, so I doubt he'll be nonplussed or embarrassed by it. I also think in general, besides a few like myself who just reached a tipping point, Pundit already has a certain reputation (albiet not entirely deserved in some cases due to the dishonesty regarding the "editiongate" scandal) that won't be too tarnished. He's thrown himself entirely in Trump and Brietbart's corner at this point, up to and including his defense of the alt-right, and I predict him doubling-down on that rather than backing away.

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Tristram
4/24/2017 08:04:16 pm

Okay, for those interested, I'm in on the ground floor of a new forum started by poster Endless Flight at www.rpgpub.com. I'm going to try and get this started up and attract some regulars so feel free to jump in.

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Shipyard Locked
4/25/2017 06:28:42 pm

I'm there.

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David R
4/25/2017 05:11:04 pm

Whoa, when someone told me that Tristram left theRPGsite I could not believe it. I always thought of the Mods at the site were kinda of like The Sweeney, the regulars like The Warriors and the whole place had a Big Trouble in Little China vibe about it.

The place has changed, though. I thought the Pundit was a libertarian or something.

For what its worth, you were always an interesting poster and even though we may have disagreed on certain topics, you made the place fun.

Cheers

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Tristram
4/25/2017 06:55:05 pm

Thanks David. I'm hanging my hat at www.rpgpub.com now, you should stop by sometime.

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Motorskills
4/30/2017 08:11:03 pm

TheRPGsite has always been a trainwreck, but the occasional gems amongst all the turds made it worthwhile. I don't think that is true anymore.

I'll check out rpgpub, good luck with it.

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Nexus
5/19/2017 09:28:47 pm

Tristram. Where you the one that trashed your art thread on the rpgsite? I understand resentment about the place but it seemed so unlike you I had to ask.

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Tristram
5/19/2017 11:58:27 pm

Yes, though it wasnt out of any sort of resentment. I went in and copied all the links to repost at the Pub, and left behind ridiculous pictures partly as a joke, partly as it was actually less work to put in a new link than to delete the posts.

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Nexus
5/22/2017 12:25:32 pm

Yeah I can understand poking at the place as you left. It was something of a surprise and along with some other things got the tinfoil hat wearing theorist in me going,

AsenRG
7/17/2017 10:53:21 am

I've mostly left RPGnet for the same reasons you have.

I am considering leaving TRS, too (though not over the Berkeley riots/gang fights, because I haven't read what Pundit had said about them). In the end, I might have to do so. But for now I'm staying, just avoiding Pungency. That's the same chance I gave to RPGnet, too - I would have stayed on RPGnet if the Left Wing Radicals were contained to Tangency Open. They let them spill over the entire forum, though, so I was out.
If something similar ever happens on TRS, I'd be out of there, too. But not yet, and I feel it's fair to give that site the same opportunity.

I can say I'm sorry to see you go, though. That's only going to lead to the site leaning further right than it already is.

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Krimson
8/28/2017 05:52:42 pm

I recently left when Pundit said straight to me that he lumps in all leftists together. If he wants to play that game then that's fine with me I can play that too and lump in the Alt-Right with the Nazis and the White Supremacists.

Mainly though I used to go there for discussion of gaming and the OSR, but really no one actually talks about game theory or creation, they just bicker about everything. It's hardly a game forum, more like a circle jerk for jerks.

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